It’s an interview that has been labelled as a ‘humiliation’.
It has also been described as ‘toe-curling’, ‘embarrassing’ and a ‘meltdown’.
And at one point, the exasperated journalist asked if there was “much point continuing this’.
We will undoubtedly add it to the collection of ‘how not to do it’ interviews we sometimes refer to during our media training courses.
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If you haven’t seen it, it is worth catching up with Emma Reynolds’ appearance on LBC on Monday.
The Treasury minister endured an agonising time at the hands of presenter Nick Ferrari when she appeared on the station to discuss a £1 billion funding package for transport.
The interview began to go spectacularly wrong when she was asked about the Lower Thames Crossing – a major infrastructure project linking Tilbury in Essex and Gravesend in Kent that has been handed £590 million in the announcement.
Ms Reynolds was unable to give details of the location of the crossing or its overall cost and managed to refer to the existing crossing as the “Dartmouth tunnel” rather than Dartford.
As the politician scrambled through her briefing notes to find answers, an increasingly irritated Mr Ferrari said: “I don’t mean to be rude to you personally. Is there much point continuing this conversation?
“Because you don’t know where a bridge starts. You don’t know where it ends. And you don’t know how much it costs.
“So, is there any point in continuing?”
Mr Ferrari was particularly unimpressed by the lack of detail on the figures. The minister kept repeating the project would cost “several billion” until the presenter corrected her, saying: “It’s £10bn. It’s not several. It’s ten.”
He added: “What does it say about the economic stewardship of this country when someone in your position doesn’t know where a bridge starts, where it ends, and how much it costs?”
When Ms Reynolds suggested she was on the programme to discuss the broader infrastructure plan – she faced questions about Hammersmith Bridge.
And that didn’t go well either.
“I’m not here to talk about Hammersmith Bridge,” she said.
“I’m not a transport Minister.”
She later protested that she could not be expected to “give dates” of all 3,000 bridges that will benefit from the scheme.
A bridge too far? Well, it was undoubtedly a disastrous interview.
I was alerted to it by a friend, who said: “You’ve got to listen to this interview.”
He added: “It was a woeful performance from a person who seemed to think an early start excused lack of preparation and detail.”
He was not alone.
As is so often the case, the interview grabbed the attention of the wider media.
And the resulting headlines were not flattering:
The key question is, what can other media spokespeople learn from this disasterclass?
We recently covered the complexities and challenges presented by the ‘morning round’ as a senior politician, like Ms Reynolds, tours the main broadcasters for around 15 interviews across three hours.
It is undoubtedly tough.
But it can also be done much better than this.
Yes, it is the obvious starting point when discussing an interview where preparation appears lacking.
But effective interview preparation is everything.
If you are discussing a massive infrastructure project, you must be on top of the key details and have them at your fingertips.
And your grip on those details must be particularly firm if you are facing Nick Ferrari – a journalist with a reputation for robust questions and meticulous attention to detail.
As we stress during our media training courses, interview preparation must involve knowing the journalist you will speak to.
Do they have a reputation for asking challenging questions?
What stories do they cover?
Do they seem to have a particular interest?
It is also worth trying to find some examples of previous interviews they conducted that you can listen to or watch.
Many radio interviews are now recorded on camera, with the footage used to provide content for social media channels.
So, body language and your actions are vital.
There were times when Ms Reynolds looked deflated and defeated during this interview.
There were other points where she could be seen scrambling through her briefing notes before reading bits of text aloud, and still not finding the relevant information.
Not only did she not sound good, but the visuals were pretty damning and added to a narrative of incompetence.
And it raises questions about the quality of the briefing notes when essential information is so hard to locate, let alone remember.
During our recent media training blog on the morning round, we highlighted how Grant Shapps encouraged his team to “beat me up” and “be quite offensive” to help him prepare for tough interviews.
That may be a little extreme.
Bur interview practice is essential.
Find colleagues who can ask those awkward and uncomfortable questions and provide honest feedback about how you handled them.
Alternatively, media interview practice can be carried out with our new AI training companion -Thirty Seven.
Spokespeople can carry out interviews on their subject with our AI-powered journalists. And you can select the style of journalist you want to work with. So, if you were about to face Mr Ferrari, you may choose to prepare with one of our “assertive” or “sceptical” reporters.
And after each interview, you get instant feedback on your performance based on our unique methodology and extensive experience.
All our media training delegates receive complimentary access to Thirty Seven for 30 days after their course.
What if Ms Reynolds had admitted she didn’t know the location of the crossing?
Or its exact cost?
It’s not ideal - and Ms Reynolds would still have faced criticism as these are key parts of her announcement.
But it is much better than trying to vaguely talk around the requested detail or floundering while you try to find an answer.
During our media skills training courses, we stress spokespeople should not be afraid to say they don’t know the answer to a particular question.
Of course, we all want to appear confident and certain in front of cameras and microphones. But sometimes, no matter how thoroughly you prepare, there may be a question you can’t answer, particularly when wider issues are brought into the conversation. Or where you mind goes blank.
Saying you don’t know feels open and honest – people value honesty.
If Ms Reynolds wants to see this in action, she should look no further than her colleague Darren Jones.
I’ve seen him take this approach a couple of times in media interviews.
When he was in the shadow cabinet, he was asked on LBC if his party would repeal voter ID rules if elected.
And he replied: “I don’t know, actually, that’s a good question. I only see economic policy, so I don’t know what our position is on it.”
After being praised by presenter Iain Dale for his honesty, he replied: “I like to say ‘I don’t know’ when I don’t know. I get told off sometimes for doing it. But come back to me when we publish our manifesto, and I’ll let you know.”
The good news for most spokespeople is they will not face media interviews as aggressive – and covering such broad topics – as those conducted with politicians.
All the journalist will want from you, in most cases, is a few interesting facts and thoughts – backed up with examples. So, don’t allow an interview like this to impact your confidence.
As for Ms Reynolds – don’t expect to see her on the morning round again any time soon.
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